What I believe Lantana's saying is like the expression, give the mouse a cookie, it'll want a glass of milk. In today's America, people are like that now. They get a cookie, they ask for a glass of milk to go with it. If one thing is wrong, they go overboard and act like it's the end of the world and make all sort of ridiculous demands.
It's not about the rights... it's the attitude. Too many people today act like they are entitled to whatever they desire for. She isn't talking about the rights; she is talking about the attitude, which is common in my generation. I can vouch for this because I've seen it happen quite often and I find it to be quite embarrassing.
Here's an example,
A deaf person sign into a hotel, find that the TV lack a captioning decoder.
How do you resolve this situation?
- March down to the lobby desk and make demands?
- Walk to the lobby desk and request a TV with a captioning decoder?
There's no point in extending the situation when a request (or a demand) is still being refused. This is when you are entitled to making a legal action against a business owner for failing to accommodate you as required by the ADA.
If you start with a rude tone, all you're going to do is provoke them and may just lead to a worse situation. It's all about doing it with class. I don't run around making demands. You don't get respect that way. They will look at you as a parasite. There's no class in it. I always do it by writing letters and if no results come out of it. Or by talking to the managers and people involved. If there are still no results, then that's when you bring it to public attention to put the pressure onto them.
Lantana here has been through much more than all of you can possibly imagine. She has shared so many stories with me and I've come to understand how different it was back then. Believe me, she has been to a lot of hotels and has all sort of horror stories to share, some turned out good, some didn't and yes, results came out of some of these experiences of hers.
Mannerisms, it's a dying art. Haven't you ever noticed that people tend to ignore you if you start yelling at them? People don't listen when you are being hostile. Next thing you know, they will be criticizing your tone, your poor choice of words, your demands being outrageous and more.
I believe it’s not just the deaf people, it’s also showing up in Canadian and American societies. My generation and the younger generations are more spoiled than ever. Not many are being taught good manners and they believe they are entitled to more than they actually are. It’s a disturbing trend I have found in today’s societies around the country and in the USA.
For god’s sake, people even think that driving is a right rather than a privilege. They scream when they get a speeding fine or lose their license for being reckless on the road. We are always making demands more than necessarily. Yes, changes are good but you cannot force the world to change overnight. You have to fight for it and a lot of patience because it’s always going to be a time-consuming process to make a big change. The ADA didn’t suddenly get all written up overnight. It took decades for it to happen and now Americans with disabilities in the 21st century are ravenous for more rights by bringing more frivolous lawsuits to the courtrooms which are costing you billions, possibly trillions a year in legal costs. It’s becoming a big burden on the taxpayers.
Lawsuits aren’t always the answer. A good example would be the lawsuit that was settled months ago to get all the special features on the DVDs captioned. Any results yet?
Nah. So far, only Disney has submitted to the demands. The rest hasn’t including Sony, Fox, Warner Brothers, MGM, Lionsgate to name a few. Instead, it ended up costing the taxpayers a pretty penny and lawyers profited from it. The deaf consumers got nothing out of it.
It's all about working together to make changes. Changes by force will not make people any less ignorant. Instead, they become more resentful toward us. I do think that the ADA is great and necessary but it's not perfect yet.
Patience is also important. Deaf Activists need to exhibit a lot of patience but also exhibit a strong characteristic trait giving people the impression you are truly passionate about pushing for more rights for your people.
Hot-headed politicians and activists don't get any respect and you know it's true. People need to straighten their priorities out and stop acting like spoiled brats who are being denied a chocolate bar.
Yes, I know it was out of character for me to respond in such a manner today. Every day, I exhibit patience and respect toward the others and I usually get what I want in return. When I write a piece for my blog, I always consider all of your feelings and show a lot of respect. I don't belittle, insult, patronize, scream, call you names. I am truly passionate about pushing for more rights but I'm not going to terrorize or shove people around to get what I want.
I don't want to be a big and spoiled monster that gets everything his way. There's no class in that and people certainly won't think too highly of me if I acted that way.
Sorry for the rant. I just had to let it out. I'm not going to stand by and let people personally attack my friend, Lantana in such a way. Let alone the thought of attacking her for not forcing her husband to sign. It's her choice and shouldn't be belittled for it. What you should do is argue against the opinion given by the writer. What do you achieve by making a personal attack? Nothing.
She didn't name anyone, she only spoke of certain groups. There's a difference. She criticized the characteristic traits she believe to exist among some of the societies we live in.
Make an argument against the opinion given by the writer if you disagree with it. Remember, we're all adults here. We aren't in the fourth grade. Instead, we should be debating the subject in a civilized manner and try to work together to find solutions for the greater good.
Whew, I wrote quite a bit today. I think I'm done for the day. Feel free to share your opinion.
Lantana set the tone first when she put down other deaf people, using a negative word, whining, a behavior exhibited by a child. It is unfortunate she used this word to describe deaf adults, exhibiting a lack of respect for others.
ReplyDeleteYou are kind to protect your friend. However, she should practice what she preaches, addressing other deaf people with respect and politeness instead of lambasting them. In this case, she is no different from those she criticizes. ;)
I'm with mishkazena - I was under the same impression as many people when reading her blog. I was turned off and it did not produce any positive outcome, nor did she accomplish anything but p**ing people off.
ReplyDeleteSo, I'm a whiner because I KNOW I CAN get a better quality interpreter if I have to fight for it.
Expect nothing?
Know what happens when I expect nothing?
A shitty and OVERPAID interpreter - or NONE at all!
No thanks...we will be forever stuck in this mode if we don't stand up and attempt to improve situations we are in.
But thanks to those "whiners", we got some rights.
Nice of you to defend your friend, and I'd do the same...but I'd slap my friend at the same time for saying something like that. :P
There are all kinds of people - even hearing people who are whiners... but do we talk about them as much as what's ACTUALLY being done? Also usually, when hearies say "whiners" - it's usually referred to "lowlife" people who are on welfare and complain about everything.
Stereotype...so what your friend did was stepping on a mine in the Deaf Community, in my humble opinion.
Sorry for the rant..
Like I said over at her blog, if she is trying to say that we shouldn't take things that we have now for granted and appreciate what we have, then I do agree with that. I just can't imagine life without what we have today but it is such a big part of our everyday lives that we are so used to it! I would have to stop and remind myself on how all of these has become possible.
ReplyDeleteI really appreciate those who fought to make this possible for us. And we are continuing that for our future generations.
I heard a saying somewhere that goes something like we need to show how much we value ourselves to others. I saw that in the movie, 'Spanglish' when that Mexican lady was being hired to become their maid and the lady played by Tea Leoni asked her how much she thinks she should get paid and then replied that the amount of pay reflects how much she values herself.
Lantana is typical of many older people who remember the "keep your place" days of long ago. Then it was taught to us that Deaf people do not make demands, do not speak up, depend on and thank hearing people for small favors, and stay dignifiedly in the background.
ReplyDelete"It is a hearing world" we were told firmly again and again. "It is up to YOU to fit in." The worst of the Deaf kids back then were punished for not obeying Hearing rules and Hearing expectations/conditions. "You aren't right to be making changes and disturbing people. You cannot change what is already there, you must accept it and work with it."
A lot of this made sense back then but we still have many older Deaf workers who have been on the same job, doing exactly the same work over and over again for 35, 40 years until retirement. Did they get interpreters and TTYs? No. Did they make a good living and take cruise vacations? No. Did they put their kids through college? No.
Many of the gifted older Deaf who have climbed their way to good jobs forget how hard it is for the majority of the grassroots people. We might see a change for the better in our Deaf twenty-somethings as a result of the changes in the past 40 years. Let's watch.
Lantana can call the Deaf whiners but I am gratefully thankful the whiners who set us for a better life as the deaf people. They fought for our rights such as allowing us to drive, vote, better education, work, and etc, etc. Not for them, I wouldn't be using this blog/vlog!
ReplyDeleteI am also with Iammine, Mishkazena, etc. They and I do see same tone Lantana gave.
I agree with everyone here too. Passive aggressive. If there is a whine I have, it's all those hearing people who can walk that park at handicapped spaces. Me? I take the subway and the bus. ;)
ReplyDeleteI just went over to read Lantana's blog entry. I have to say I disagree with what she's saying.
ReplyDeleteI don't think standing up for our rights is whining. I do agree with you that there are certain people out there who lack class when they're rightfully standing up for themselves.
But Lantana is basically telling us be grateful for what we have. Don't strive for more. And frankly, anyone who tells me that goes on my s***list. :P
I'm not going to sit around and be grateful for what I have, when I still have to file complaints with Civil Rights to get a qualified interpreter for my medical appointments.
Hmm, I'll have to go back and see what some of the other comments were! But as one of the first who posted on her article, I'll point out something in response to this one: I use approach #2. And for that approach, hearing people will call me a whiner. Any attempt to stand up for myself is whining. Nuh-uh. This is something I've seen for decades now. So, no, I won't stop fighting for what my rights are and if people are going to call me a whiner, I'll shrug and continue to to stand up for myself...
ReplyDeleteBanjo,
ReplyDeleteOK. How would you explain off this: "The big clue is to be humble, expect nothing. Then you will be pleasantly surprised if you get thrown a few tidbits."?
Because that immediately brought up an image of a not yet skeletal but hungry "pariah dog" waiting by a table for the people to toss "sympathy scraps". The dog should even wag it's tail when a scrap is tossed at it..
That and her implication that deaf people should have stuck with having hearing children as a means to make phone calls is very difficult to accept.
Try substituting "deaf" with "women" or "black" or.. Yeah. Why is it often accepted without question or even celebrated with national holidays for the others but when it comes to deaf, all of a sudden it's not exactly so acceptable?
If her intent is for us to retain or improve our social courtesy, then she needed to re-word the whole thing. "Grateful for scraps" and "use children to make calls" doesn't really bring out the social courtesy message very much at all.
I don't think it's the activists. Many of these people she spoke of aren't activists. They are often consumers with a malicious habit to exploit the system for personal gains.
ReplyDeleteWhat Lantana's saying is to fight with class. Maybe it's just me but I just find it more inspiring when one fight it with class. For example, a blogger can write about how a change is needed for a good cause. Then they make it happen by gathering many supporters and arrange several public rallies to spread the awareness. We have several deaf advocates who blog here on the internet, they do it with class. I take stride in that.
IamMine and Mishkazena, maybe she could had used a better choice of word. Though I do wish people wouldn't focus on one particular word. Nothing ruin a good discussion like the nitpicking of a particular word used. All it does is remind me of how people overreacted to the "wardrobe malfunction" at the Super Bowl a few years ago. That's what happening here right now.
The kind of people she described can be found at some deaf forums. For instance, a deaf person makes a claim saying that he was discriminated against by a store because he didn't get hired. Suddenly, the whole chain is being accused of being bigoted, just one of the many examples. In fact, it's one of the "entitlements" Lantana is speaking of. It's among the worst exploitations found in the legal system. It happens far too often and it's a waste of taxpayers' money. Yet nobody is talking about this.
I want to ask all of you, can you deny that we have people among us who are trying to exploit the legal system for their personal gains?
Can you?
I believe that there are people who do it for themselves, not for the greater good.
I see it far too often at some deaf forums. People try to take advantage of the others for personal gains. If I was to fight for a cause, I want it to be for everybody. Not just me.
It's not just some of our people. The hearing people are doing it to us too by trying to scam people into giving up their bank accounts for the "deaf children in Africa" by using the relay service.
I can see where Lantana give off the vibe that she's lumping all of the deaf people together. Perhaps it's a bad case of miscommunication between the writer and the readers. I know her very well and that's not how she see it. Lantana is a fighter and she did fight for her rights. She always kept people on their toes.
I think I've said enough. If people wish to continue the discussion, feel free to. Just refrain from attacking each other here.
Thank you.
Hi,
ReplyDeleteI tried to post a comment at Lantana's blog, I don't know if it will come through or not. So I will try yours and hope Lantana will read it also.
When I read Lantana's post, it reminded me of my parents, they are still very nice and will never speak up if things go wrong. This was not very good. My husband on the other hand had very assertive mother, she would always speak up and fight for what she needed.
As for us being "spoiled brats", I resent this very much. We are in the state of advanced technology when things are very rapid-moving, easy to access and many things. When we are unable to get it, this makes us feel very frustrated and upset, of course, if a hearing person would face the same thing, they would have gotten upset just like us. Imagine if a hearing person had a cellphone that was not working, they would get boiling mad, maybe call their service provider, and complain at why their cellphone isnt working.
Believe me, I have seen many disabled people get really upset, they have my utmost respect, they are literally fighting for our rights!
Remember the movie, "Children of Lesser God", the hearing audience was constantly amazed and even more surprised when they saw Marlee Matlin get really upset and signing furiously! Many hearing people have the mistaken image of a deaf person being meek, quiet, non-assertive and of limited intelligence which is not true. So when they see deaf person get really upset, this is most shocking and surprising thing for them. This is why they may misunderstand why we have furious expressions and signing and it is because we are angry.
Of course, we know how to ask things respectfully but when it is constantly broken or does not work or isn't available for us over and over again, then we certainly have the right to get angry and speak loudly.
At Gallaudet, many people stayed quiet for many years and were shocked to discover that the accrediation process was flawed and ignored for years, now we have to clean up the mess.
So it is best to speak out loudly, make your voice heard and fight for our rights!! Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat on the bus, is she considered a spoiled brat? No! There are other famous people who have fought for our rights, they had to do it in a way that was unorthodox in order to shake things up.
So in other words, we have to be ourselves, allow ourselves to get angry, show all facets of our emotions as we are humans, and to allow ourselves to be a fully deaf equal human being!
Michele, well said.
ReplyDeleteRosa Parks did it for a cause and then she began to get more and more support therefore, they formed a big boycott of public transportation. Civil disobedience was used as the last resort. They kept asking and asking only to get no results out of it.
That's why they fought for it because nothing was being done about it. That's why I said it should be done as a last resort.
Today, too many people react prematurely and make rash moves without thinking it out. That's why there's so many frivolous lawsuits out there now. People don't wait, they just run to the first lawyer they find after they run into a problem.
Like I said... ask. If they refuse, contact a lawyer and arrange a meeting to talk it out. If they still refuse, then bring it to the public attention and make a campaign out of it. If there's still no results, then a lawsuit is the last option to go with and hope for the best.
That's how they did it back then and many still do it today. Though I'll like to see people discussing the subject.
"Of course, we know how to ask things respectfully but when it is constantly broken or does not work or isn't available for us over and over again, then we certainly have the right to get angry and speak loudly."
Well, that's perfectly reasonable. Nothing wrong with that. If they repeatedly refuse, or keep re-occurring, it's time to become aggressive.
"if a hearing person had a cellphone that was not working, they would get boiling mad, maybe call their service provider, and complain at why their cellphone isnt working"
Well, the hearing person isn't being considerate. I was taught to be considerate of the others' and to not react too rashly when it's too early to determine where the problem lies.
We should always fight for our rights if it is being denied. I'm just saying we shouldn't be boiling mad at the first incidence. I've experienced my share and I've gotten results out of them.
But hey, we all get angry sometimes. It happens.
Hmmm... interesting discussion here. I can see how others see Lantana's blog as one way. I hope she doesn't mean it that way. I'll have to trust Banjo's judgment since he says that he knows her well. I hope she will post a blog to clarify her position.
ReplyDeleteLike I said on Lantana's blog, it's all about the attitude and how we approach the hearing world for something.
I'm going to reserve my judgments until I see Lantana's post to clarify where she's coming from.
Thanks!
Hmm, Banjo, it was not just one word whining. I used it as an example, but there were other examples there. It was the overall tone of her post. : /
ReplyDeleteoff the topic, but I was wondering if Canadians have ADA or something similar there and can they be members of NAD?
ReplyDeleteHow can we tell deaf people that they need to be more polite to someone like a hotel manager about a closed caption problem? It is not worth for them to get into an argument. They stay in a hotel for one or two days which is not a big deal. They should have brought their own books to read instead of habit watching the TV.
ReplyDeleteDo you ever seen or hear some deaf people complain about many issues? I think I am shamed to see like that.
Do they slap a friend without knowing what is going on? I think my friend talks bad things about me for really no reason because I strongly believe that she is bored at home and nothing to do expect complain talks. Isn't that common for deaf people like that?
Excuse me, I am not talking about Lantana. I am talking about my other friend about my situation.
ReplyDeleteWrong question to ask, really.
ReplyDeleteShould ask this: "Why are we whiners? Is there a cause to this effect?"
Indeed there is! It's called negative reinforcement. Children learn this at an early age and their behaviors do reflect the discipline of the parents...
Latana sees her "children" as whiners...
But the current generation is a reflection of the previous generation...
If we are whiners, does that mean Latana failed her duty as an adult to the younger generations by not passing on the skills, manners, and ideals she holds dear?
der sankt
Ben, that's an interesting thought.
ReplyDeleteWhile it may be true that we reflect our previous generation. Though I think one major problem is, we aren't often taught to not take everything for granted.
So with the luxury we are handed in our lives, we ignore the struggles our previous generations made. They made it happen for us and we aren't showing enough appreciation for it.
Just like many people don't appreciate the forefathers of their countries because they take everything for granted.
Just a thought.
the pains of going up will be felt again when you go down
ReplyDeletePale Lapin